Procedure for forcing a digital host channel

[mabuttra]

Jeff,

I'm in Wichita, Kansas. I don't have a cablecard, but when I had cable connected to my unit for a few days recently it chose 1:114-0 as the host channel. Digital CBS is actually channel 114.5, so I'm sure that is where your host is coming from. That is what happens OTA also here. CBS is 12.1 OTA, but the host will either be blank, or show as 0:19-0 which is the RF channel where 12.1 is. Also, if you fail the G* test, but the VBI count starts incrementing, you can press the 2 key on the remote to re-run the VBI test. I bet it will pass then.

Mark

[spiff72]

Thanks, Mark.  That helps confirm my suspicions.

[Bruce Perens]

I went through the procedure yesterday, and the unit that "took" reports host channel 29-0, which is the RF channel for virtual channel 5.1 KCBS. My other unit doesn't report a host channel, I'm starting the process again on that unit.

[fredullman]

First post here (will also post in the AVS Forum)
- I'm OTA only in Ft. Myers FLA area. DHGHDD250 model - software = 1.2.05. 
Until now the Sony was the most stable and reliable of all my DVRs!
On 2/17 LOST listings (all now = NO LISTINGS).
My local CBS analog host ceased transmissions on 2/17.  I had thought that the transition for the Sony would not require me to take any action!!??
On the other hand my LG3410A is the one I've been trying to get back on TVGOS. I'm chasing my tail on that one!
Anyhow I need some direction as to how to get my Sony to receive digital TVGOS. I (THINK?) know it is being transmitted because I have a DTVPal DVR that is receiving TVGOS listings. And yes, it has its own problems!

If I need a software upgrade how do I get it and install it?
Any other necessary user actions to get the Sony into the digital TVGOS world?
I really appreciate any help and will supply more info if needed?
Thanks,  Fred

[retireebob]

I got lucky!
My cable host channel is 4.1, CBS. The 250 has constantly kept changing the VBI host back to analog channel 11, local PBS, after 24 hours and I lose the listings.
7 days ago, and the morning after forcing chan. 4.1, and while the tv listing was showing, I changed the order of the listings to show my digital channels before the analog channels on the list. Since then, the host channel has remained on 4.1 and the list stays fully populated for better then 7 days.
Cable co is Comcast, no cablecard.

[Stonewalled]

  All of our TVGOS data vanished as of 2/23.  We are unfortunate customers of TimeWarner in Portsmouth, Ohio.  Our host channel has vanished.  Using the 753159852 service menu, the host id is "0x0:, the host channel is blank, and vbi channel is "1:0-4".  Using 9012 service menu on channel 4, vbi shows :"vbi:1023-65533".  I am guessing that that is a code of some sort.  The PBS channel on TimeWarner 4 is WOSU from Columbus, Ohio.  I spoke to their head engineer this afternoon, and he says that they ARE still carrying the TVGOS data in their analog signal.  We have a local "mirror" PBS station locally, that broadcasts on analog 34.  I can access them with OTA antenna, so am wondering if there is any way to have both cable and antenna hooked up at the same time.  I can do so with my Sony SXRD TV, but could find nothing in the DVR manual indicating that it is possible.  Has anyone done this?
  Needless to say, Sony support has been useless.  (They said the two connections at once is not possible, but considering some of the other things they have said, I am not relying on this being true.)  I did find one thing they said to be rather curious.  They insist (3 different reps have told me this) that the Sony DHG's ABSOLUTELY CANNOT receive TVGOS data from anything except an analog channel.  Unless I am misreading, several people on this forum are currently using digital channels for the data.  Is everyone who is posting here using Sony DHG's, or do we have a mixture of other TVGOS enabled devices?  If the DHG's can get TVGOS from digital signals, can anyone convince Sony of that.
  I've tried frank70's protocol, but am having no luck - guess I'm stuck until we figure out if any channel on TimeWarner has TVGOS data.  I'm also tried contacting them, but get the same result I do from Sony (alas, the source of my name).  Requests to have an engineer call me have thus far gone unanswered.  (The engineer from WOSU said he was going to call TimeWarner and try to get an answer for me.  Hope he gets more cooperation than I have.)

[frank70]

These are strange and unpredictable machines for sure. But I ABSOLUTELY am receiving TVGOS downloads via a CBS digital channel (the only channel left in Philly that is broadcasting TVGOS.) Sony reps are in the dark ages and only echo what they are told to read; like so many other tech support departments, they cannot deal with the unusual, and especially about discontinued equipment.

Yes, you should be able to get TVGOS listings, channel lineups, firmware, etc. via a digital channel - many other than myself are currently doing so.

My listings were sporadic for about a week starting 2 weeks ago, but this past week, every morning I get up and check and it's all there! The host channel in my case is 3.1 (KYW-DT in Philadelphia.)

[spiff72]

Stonewalled,

You absolutely can connect antenna and cable at the same time.  Just look at the back of the unit and you will find separate coax connectors for cable and antenna.  You will probably want to re-run the setup so you can force it to scan for antenna channels, and set up TVGOS to get listings for both cable and antenna.

[bm4wood]

I posted this in another portion of this forum, but will repeat it here for Stonewalled:

Had a power failure in my neighborhood Saturday (2/28), when my hdd250 rebooted, it showed the old firmware version 8.01.42.  Didn't have to rescan channels, but performed the G* test for VBI packets to get my clock to come back from my digital CBS station.

The good news is that a few hours later the firmware was 8.05.40 and then overnight became the 8.06.44.  So the firmware DOES update using the digital only station, even if the machine resets to 8.01.42.

Yes, these work with digital only; and even the older version of the firmware updates with the digital station VBI packets (no matter what the Sony 'experts' say).

[Stonewalled]

    Update: Still no clock or TV guide listings.  I have talked to head engineer for PBS station, who assures me that (1) they are still sending their analog signal, and (2) TVGOS data is leaving their antenna with the data intact.  Also talked to head engineer for our closest CBS digital station (WOWK in Huntington, WV - the only one carried by Time-Warner here), who gave me some bad news.  They are not sending out TVGOS on their digital signal; they were sending it on analog, but went digital only on 2/17.  He hopes to add it to digital; the hold-up is that Gemstar has not sent him the equipment that is needed for digital broadcasts.  He said he'd call and see if they are going to send it.  An aside: I've found it very easy to get in touch with the head engineers at the PBS and CBS stations, who really have no reason to be cooperative.  However, I'm made numerous calls to try and talk to Time-Warner (who I pay a tidy sum every month) engineers , and have never been allowed to speak to them, had a return e-mail or return call.  The PBS engineer has made calls to Time-Warner to find out what they are doing to his signal, but he has not had a response either.
    My discussions with PBS engineer did have a silver lining - WOSU has a "mirror" station (WPBO, channel 42) within a few miles of my house, which he said is also still broadcasting in analog and should have the TVGOS data.  After receiving the reply from spiff72, I browsed the menus on the DHG-HDD500 and found one labelled "Auto Add From Antenna".  I hooked up some old rabbit ears and it found 3 stations, including the analog PBS.  It added them, so when you use the remote to scan the channels it shows the cable channel (listing it as cable), then shows the analog channel of the same number (listed as ant if I remember correctly).  When I did the G* test on the ota channel 42, I was getting VBI packets.  I thought my problems were (temporarily) solved, but after 24 hours, still no clock, no listings.  Does anyone have any ideas?  Is there some minimum amount of VBI packets that must come in for this to work?  I thought perhaps the old rabbit ears were insufficient (the picture looks good, no ghosts).  I get about 275 VBI packets in the first minute of the G* test.
    When I look for my host channel, it is still blank.  My clock set channel is "fffffffd" (a few days ago it was 0:0-0).  Will the procedure for forcing a digital host channel work for an analog host channel, or is there some simpler way for analog? 
    bm4wood: I am currently showing firmware 8.01.42 (it was 8.06.44 previously, but I accidentally reset it when I meant to do a G* test - late one night after I had spent a couple of hours with various Sony reps and was going brain dead.  Their solution for everything seems to be to perform a master re-boot).

[dragonxbs]

"or is there some simpler way for analog?"

Yes, just go to setup under the tv guide and select the first tab if i remember right.  Setup your cable and antenna inputs along with your zipcode.  (basic setup procedure)  Leave the infernal machine ALONE over night, better yet, make it two if you can resist the temptation to play with it. (I can't)

...Or, you can use the forcing procedure.  I don't see why it wouldn't work for forcing an analog host.

One interesting note, you can populate your guide even if you can't get a lock on your host.  My analog host quit broadcasting earlier last week, and I have been trying to force a digital host ever since (with very little results).  BUT, I came across an interesting procedure.  I think I found it on AVS and I forget if it was frank70 or WhatHappened, but the point is, if you have a channel that you are receiving vbi packets from using the G* test,  the way to make sure this channel is actually sending guide info instead of random crap is to:

1) turn off the auto off feature (found in the sony menus)
2) tune into your channel that is sending vbi
3) run G* test (double check to make sure that it passes and vbi increments)
4) LEAVE THE DVR ON !!!

Voila, if the vbi is guide data, you should have a fully populated guide complete with ads by morning (I ran the dvr on G* test from ~1am - 8am).  Right now this is my only option since I have not been able to lock on to my digital host, and although it is a touch inconvenient, it saves me from having a $400 door stop on my hands.

...BUT, assuming the analog station is sending the TVGOS data, your dvr should pick up on it and operate normally, making these extra tweeks useless, but good to know.  Some people have found it simple to switch over to digital, some people like us are having a spot of difficullty.

[Stonewalled]

   I think the problem is solved.  I had previously tried tuning to my OTA analog PBS station and leaving the DVR on overnight (and had tried with DVR off), but nothing had happened.  Last night after reading dragonxbs's post, I went back into the setup procedure for the TVGOS and re-entered my information.  It had been 2 to 3 years since I last did this, and I didn't remember that it asks whether you have cable and whether you have antenna.  When I originally set things up, I had no reason to have the antenna hooked up, so I said no to that question.  Even though I had done the "auto add from antenna" which found the PBS station and added it (so that when I used the remote I could access it by using the up and down channel buttons), the TV guide portion of the DVR must not have "known" that I was using an antenna. 

   When I got up this morning, I had both the correct time and 3 days' listings (not consecutive of course).  My host channel is 0:0-42 (the OTA PBS analog channel), and I've been updated to ver. 8.06.44

   Thanks to everyone who has helped get me back up and running.

[Stonewalled]

   Another peculiarity with the Sony DHG's?  My listings were not refreshing, even though my host channel was correct and VBI packets are there.  I think this is why: If you have both cable and antenna hooked up to the DVR, when you go from a cable channel to an OTA channel (or vice-versa), there is an audible click.  It appears that there is an electro-mechanical change inside the DVR swithching to the antenna (or cable) input.  So, if you happen to be watching something on a cable channel and turn the DVR off, when it is time for the listings to refresh, there is no access to the signal from the OTA channel.  Since we only are using the OTA signal to get TVGOS data, we always had the DVR on a cable channel when it was turned off.  After all our listings disappeared, I turned it to OTA channel 42 this morning then turned it off, and 12 hours later we had listings again.  Does this make sense, or has anyone else seen this happen?

[mabuttra]

   Another peculiarity with the Sony DHG's?  My listings were not refreshing, even though my host channel was correct and VBI packets are there.  I think this is why: If you have both cable and antenna hooked up to the DVR, when you go from a cable channel to an OTA channel (or vice-versa), there is an audible click.  It appears that there is an electro-mechanical change inside the DVR swithching to the antenna (or cable) input.  So, if you happen to be watching something on a cable channel and turn the DVR off, when it is time for the listings to refresh, there is no access to the signal from the OTA channel.  Since we only are using the OTA signal to get TVGOS data, we always had the DVR on a cable channel when it was turned off.  After all our listings disappeared, I turned it to OTA channel 42 this morning then turned it off, and 12 hours later we had listings again.  Does this make sense, or has anyone else seen this happen?

There is definitely a relay that switches between OTA, and Cable, but I have heard that relay switching when the unit is off, so that shouldn't be the issue. However, at the time that I was getting TVGOS from the analog PBS station OTA, my cable company was damaging this same data. If my unit would lock onto PBS over the cable channel instead of OTA, I would start losing my listings. I had to go into the channel list and turn off the cable channel that had the bad data on it, so my DVR wouldn't try to use it. Could it be that when searching for a host channel it starts on whichever source was last active, and searches there first? If your cable system was munging the TVGOs data, that could cause the No Listings problem. By leaving it on OTA, it found the good data channel first.

Mark

[lynxxs]

Just chiming in with my experience getting the dhg updating using a digital host channel, like most of you my local pbs stopped sending out vbi packets, when looking for a work around I can across this site and this is what I did.

The first thing i did was change my dhg to the corresponding digital ota channel that is sending out valid vbi packets (mine CBS 10.1 Tampa FL) and just left it on for about 12 hrs or so, I think it was from 11am-10:30pm when i got home, the tv guide was populated.

Next I followed the guide at the beginning of this post, for 'locking the digital host channel'
I went ahead and did the "VBI Search Current Channel" and left the dvr off until the next morning and my guide was still populated, Yay!

But when I checked for the host channel in the service menu the host channel info was blank... Now the weird thing, a full 7 days later and still with a blank host channel, my dvr tv guide is still being updated a full 8 days in advance.

I'm assuming the dvr is getting the updates from my digital host channel, but the info in not in the service menu.

I hope info that will help someone.